Comments on: Various Thoughts http://www.drainingsouls.net/2008/05/02/various-thoughts/ A World of Warcraft (and MMO) blog Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:51:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Polecat http://www.drainingsouls.net/2008/05/02/various-thoughts/#comment-1017 Polecat Mon, 05 May 2008 21:31:54 +0000 http://www.drainingsouls.net/?p=312#comment-1017 Probably WAR and AoC will face the same problems every other MMO has faced that's not EQ or WoW... failure due to lack of a large install base. City of Heroes, to it's credit, has survived this long despite not being able to keep up even close to WoW. But CoH was made by Cryptic for NCSoft... the makers of Lineage 2. To them, it was their attempt to capture part of the US market through a US maker. I read somewhere (Totally forget where) about NCsoft specifically looking for a game for the US market because Lineage was doing so poorly here. The person they spoke to (and the writer whose name I forget)said they lacked character customizability, and that's something we in the US put a lot of stake in. It further amplified my point on the differences between the cultures, because the idea of that sort of custimization was as foreign to them as we ourselves are. As for the fee structure, yeah the Pay for stuff model sucks sometimes. But sometimes It's okay. i do have one game of that model I play on and off... tho admittedly it's a Golf game. :D - Polecat Probably WAR and AoC will face the same problems every other MMO has faced that’s not EQ or WoW… failure due to lack of a large install base. City of Heroes, to it’s credit, has survived this long despite not being able to keep up even close to WoW. But CoH was made by Cryptic for NCSoft… the makers of Lineage 2. To them, it was their attempt to capture part of the US market through a US maker. I read somewhere (Totally forget where) about NCsoft specifically looking for a game for the US market because Lineage was doing so poorly here. The person they spoke to (and the writer whose name I forget)said they lacked character customizability, and that’s something we in the US put a lot of stake in. It further amplified my point on the differences between the cultures, because the idea of that sort of custimization was as foreign to them as we ourselves are.

As for the fee structure, yeah the Pay for stuff model sucks sometimes. But sometimes It’s okay. i do have one game of that model I play on and off… tho admittedly it’s a Golf game. :D

- Polecat

]]> By: Adrenis http://www.drainingsouls.net/2008/05/02/various-thoughts/#comment-1007 Adrenis Mon, 05 May 2008 15:02:10 +0000 http://www.drainingsouls.net/?p=312#comment-1007 That's very interesting, Polecat. I knew the fee structure is different around the world - I believe in China they pay to play WoW by the hour (around 10 cents/hour I think) - but I didn't know it was so diverse. The idea of paying for good items seems very strange. I wonder how that will affect WAR and AoC when they are released. That’s very interesting, Polecat. I knew the fee structure is different around the world - I believe in China they pay to play WoW by the hour (around 10 cents/hour I think) - but I didn’t know it was so diverse. The idea of paying for good items seems very strange. I wonder how that will affect WAR and AoC when they are released.

]]> By: Polecat http://www.drainingsouls.net/2008/05/02/various-thoughts/#comment-968 Polecat Sat, 03 May 2008 20:47:05 +0000 http://www.drainingsouls.net/?p=312#comment-968 I'll just make a quick comment here about the fee for MMOs and leave it be. Simply put, the idea of not paying monthly fees for MMOs started (I think) over in Korea. Regardless of where is started tho, it's spread over the Asian block of gamers and has proliferated to the point that Asian gamers REFUSE to play an MMO with a monthly fee. WoW has all but dropped off the map there. The top games in the Asian areas are all free to play MMOs. Now that said, "free to play" MMOs are a misnomer. They are not "free", only free of the monthly charge. They require real money for in game ITEMS. Sure you don't have to, but if you want the "Ub3r L33t" gear, you're gonna pony up some cash, not gold. Basically people who put their cash down for the gear will have an advantage over the guy not paying a dime. The upshot of all of this is that in the Asia block for Video games, and also growing in the European block of gamers, is a complete intolerance for the "monthly fee" style of charging for an MMO. We here in the US are the only ones seemingly happy with the monthly fee set-up. Now, seeing as how video games seem require world-wide success to really make money, this is problematic for companies like Blizzard and what-not. I fully believe WoW is completely safe, simply because of how huge the installed base is/was before this trend came about. However I do believe this is PART of where the problem lies with other start-up MMOs. With the monthly fee structure, they literally aren't being adopted in any other country, and with WoW so dominant here in the US, the install base for an MMO is far too small for the makers to get a decent income to keep the game going. So the upshot of all of this is basically this: We in the US don't mind the monthly fee. Overseas however, the trend is dying a horrible death and forcing world-wide manufacturers to start creating on a different payment structure. The Asian block for gamers is the LARGEST block in the world. The US is second. Thus without a solid hold in both territories, an MMO often fails. More, the expectations of MMOs seem to differ vastly between these cultures as well, beyond payment schemes. I still remember vividly a question posed to a Japanese video game reporter (I don't remember the name, I apologize. I only know he worked for one of Japans larger gaming magazines) about why games in Japan didn't feature the ability to create your own characters. The Asian man looked shocked and asked in an increadulous voice "Why would you want to do all that work?!? You put the game in to play, not to sit there and work!!" (This is paraphrased, it's been a few years, but the answer was similar. The big thing that stuck out to me tho was how the Japanese man responded, that the idea of customizing your character was "Work" and not the least bit enjoyable). The specific implications of that aside (Like why so many spikey haired idiots are forced down our throats in JRPGs) the overall suggestion is that the culture and community is radically different enough to be major hurdle for a game producer as well. One only has to look at one of the last surviving Monthly Fee based MMO in Asia to see that clearly. Last I saw it was still #1 over there, and doing to competition there what WoW does to it here in the states... Lineage II. Lineage 2 barely did anything here in the states and Korean maker NCSoft still can't figure out why we in the US don't like it. Okay, I rambled form my point a bit so I will wrap it up here and kick myself for going so far astray. The point is, the free to play, pay for items design is growing in popularity, and spurned by the Asian block of gamers who are swapping to it not only happily, but to the exclusion of the old system. The Euro market is seeing a shift to that as well, but I personally wager for a different reason (I know a guy who lives there. Games are massively expensive. 2 to 3 times as expensive as they are in the States so IMHO, for them free to play is a real breath of fresh air form the gouging they've been getting). Thus that leaves makers with a problem. The US is slow to adopt the Free to Play system, but the other markets are adopting it, and in Asia, to the growing exclusion of the previous style. Thus, in my opinion, I don't think we'll have a choice sometime in the future. LARGE MMOs need a worldwide install base to be successful, and as such will need to modify their charging strategies to fit what the majority of gamers worldwide will accept. That said tho, I think we're a little ways off from it. Just look at the production values of WoW or City of Heroes over the free MMOs out right now. There's a massive difference. I think when that closes is when the US will be willing to shift over too. We've always been willing to pay a little more for quality and reliability here. ;) - Polecat I’ll just make a quick comment here about the fee for MMOs and leave it be. Simply put, the idea of not paying monthly fees for MMOs started (I think) over in Korea. Regardless of where is started tho, it’s spread over the Asian block of gamers and has proliferated to the point that Asian gamers REFUSE to play an MMO with a monthly fee. WoW has all but dropped off the map there. The top games in the Asian areas are all free to play MMOs. Now that said, “free to play” MMOs are a misnomer. They are not “free”, only free of the monthly charge. They require real money for in game ITEMS. Sure you don’t have to, but if you want the “Ub3r L33t” gear, you’re gonna pony up some cash, not gold. Basically people who put their cash down for the gear will have an advantage over the guy not paying a dime.

The upshot of all of this is that in the Asia block for Video games, and also growing in the European block of gamers, is a complete intolerance for the “monthly fee” style of charging for an MMO. We here in the US are the only ones seemingly happy with the monthly fee set-up. Now, seeing as how video games seem require world-wide success to really make money, this is problematic for companies like Blizzard and what-not. I fully believe WoW is completely safe, simply because of how huge the installed base is/was before this trend came about. However I do believe this is PART of where the problem lies with other start-up MMOs. With the monthly fee structure, they literally aren’t being adopted in any other country, and with WoW so dominant here in the US, the install base for an MMO is far too small for the makers to get a decent income to keep the game going.

So the upshot of all of this is basically this: We in the US don’t mind the monthly fee. Overseas however, the trend is dying a horrible death and forcing world-wide manufacturers to start creating on a different payment structure. The Asian block for gamers is the LARGEST block in the world. The US is second. Thus without a solid hold in both territories, an MMO often fails. More, the expectations of MMOs seem to differ vastly between these cultures as well, beyond payment schemes. I still remember vividly a question posed to a Japanese video game reporter (I don’t remember the name, I apologize. I only know he worked for one of Japans larger gaming magazines) about why games in Japan didn’t feature the ability to create your own characters. The Asian man looked shocked and asked in an increadulous voice “Why would you want to do all that work?!? You put the game in to play, not to sit there and work!!” (This is paraphrased, it’s been a few years, but the answer was similar. The big thing that stuck out to me tho was how the Japanese man responded, that the idea of customizing your character was “Work” and not the least bit enjoyable). The specific implications of that aside (Like why so many spikey haired idiots are forced down our throats in JRPGs) the overall suggestion is that the culture and community is radically different enough to be major hurdle for a game producer as well. One only has to look at one of the last surviving Monthly Fee based MMO in Asia to see that clearly. Last I saw it was still #1 over there, and doing to competition there what WoW does to it here in the states… Lineage II. Lineage 2 barely did anything here in the states and Korean maker NCSoft still can’t figure out why we in the US don’t like it.

Okay, I rambled form my point a bit so I will wrap it up here and kick myself for going so far astray. The point is, the free to play, pay for items design is growing in popularity, and spurned by the Asian block of gamers who are swapping to it not only happily, but to the exclusion of the old system. The Euro market is seeing a shift to that as well, but I personally wager for a different reason (I know a guy who lives there. Games are massively expensive. 2 to 3 times as expensive as they are in the States so IMHO, for them free to play is a real breath of fresh air form the gouging they’ve been getting). Thus that leaves makers with a problem. The US is slow to adopt the Free to Play system, but the other markets are adopting it, and in Asia, to the growing exclusion of the previous style. Thus, in my opinion, I don’t think we’ll have a choice sometime in the future. LARGE MMOs need a worldwide install base to be successful, and as such will need to modify their charging strategies to fit what the majority of gamers worldwide will accept. That said tho, I think we’re a little ways off from it. Just look at the production values of WoW or City of Heroes over the free MMOs out right now. There’s a massive difference. I think when that closes is when the US will be willing to shift over too. We’ve always been willing to pay a little more for quality and reliability here. ;)

- Polecat

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